[00:00:00] You’re listening to Women’s Dream Enlightenment. Dream decoding deep discussions and stories of spiritual awakening to inspire your personal enlightened journey. I’m your host, Megan Mary, international bestselling metaphysical author. And founder of Inner Realms Publishing. Let’s bring in the light.

Megan: Welcome. Today we have Michelle Shackleford. She is a creator and holder of Brave and Sacred Spaces, a 500 hour certified yoga instructor. She holds a master of Divinity in Theology and is a life coach and meditation teacher on Insight timer. Okay. Michelle is a lover of spirituality and all things metaphysical, whimsical, mysterious, and woo woo.

She has wild [00:01:00] dreams, both the sleepy kind and the life kind. And finally, she is a human to dog joy and cat kitty, as well as foster cat Houdini. Welcome Michelle.

Michelle Shackelford: Thank you.

Megan: Yes. I really appreciate you hopping on and being my guest today. So my first question is what I ask everyone when we get started, and that is, what does enlightenment mean to you?

Michelle Shackelford: Hmm. The, the big question, right? The whole question of everything. Enlightenment as a capital letter E I suppose, if there were such a thing as a goal on the soul’s journey of development, it would be. Kind of aiming toward enlightenment and I think of it from a yogic perspective of [00:02:00] the union or the at oneness, the whole of the full self body, mind, soul and, and in the place where it’s purified. Which is kinda the purpose of the whole of life. Undoing all the conditionings and the samskara and all the things that are going on in our souls existence and being, so that we can get to this place where we are just completely ourself and divine, which is I think who we are in our purest essence

Megan: I like that answer, and I agree with you that it is that. Merging and recognition of the mind, body, and spirit because we. Come into this life in a physical sense, and we’re not really taught that all three things [00:03:00] have to coalesce. They have to work together for us to really be able to reach that level of awareness.

And many times we’re living in just one of those areas, focusing too much on one of those areas and not understanding that they all have to work together.

Yes. So in your experience, tell the listeners about your spiritual awakening story. That’s what we share on this show, and many times it’s a meandering path and there’s a lot of stops and starts. It’s not necessarily a linear process, but how did it happen for you?

Michelle Shackelford: This is the question again. So. I was raised in a very religious home and [00:04:00] setting. I was raised in the state of Mississippi in the US and we, my family was very, very, very, very fundamentalist Southern Baptist if you know, you know, kind of thing. and, a lot of my family still is, so I was taught to be the good, good girl, the submissive one.

You know in the church that I grew up in, women do not preach. Women do not teach over men. Women do not pray the service the worship service. Women do not have leadership roles. They definitely don’t get to be called minister or pastor. they are supposed to be very subservient and subservient kind of roles. And, so I, it was very much ingrained in me that it was not a place that ministry in the church setting and the [00:05:00] Christian Church setting was not for me. Which is interesting because that’s exactly where I first sensed my. spiritual calling is, is the word that I, that version of me would call it. And, and that just is a word for the thing that beckons your soul that you can’t not do. You just have to kind of go in that direction. It’s just, it’s this, this yearning, this calling to your being really. And, it’s just, it’s a long story and I’ll try to keep it outta the weeds.

But I went to college and spent a year majoring in music education and I did not enjoy majoring in music. It made me hate music which I was not okay with. I dropped that and ended up transferring my sophomore year to a different school where I was able to major in religion. It was a [00:06:00] Christian school, and at that time in my life when I started realizing. That women can have roles in ministry, in pastoring and preaching and teaching and praying and leadership. I just didn’t really see myself in. In a preaching or pastoral role. It wasn’t until I was two years out of my undergrad degree and I also knew that I wanted to go on to get my master of Divinity somewhere. I wasn’t super set yet where, well, I thought I was, and then it kept kind of being a question mark. And during the second year of what I call my gap years, I started sensing this, what I then called a calling toward pastoral and preaching ministry. Using, again, using the terms of that version of [00:07:00] me churchy word, so to speak. I was so afraid of that because I knew that that would mean. A lot of loss pretty much being not accepted by my family of origin. I didn’t really know how that would end up, playing out. but so I just, I resisted it a lot and you know, they say that what you resist persists. And so and you can’t really run from the divine ultimately. And that’s actually a gift. I think it is grace. And so anyway, I, Was wrestling with that call and that was my first time I’d ever really given a quote sermon. it was unexpectedly when our pastor had to leave unexpectedly. So I filled in and. That was a [00:08:00] transformative summer and got to feed young girls, their faces, just light up realizing I’m a girl and I can do this.

Like, I can talk about my story with the divine . And. So that was a wonderful experience. Then I went to seminary, which took five years for me to complete my master divinity degree. that was a whole journey in and of itself. Talk about the hero’s journey of being knocked down, dragged through the mud, you know, coming home with scars and wounds and. Muddy and bloody. That was, that was definitely my five years of seminary experience. I had a lot of undoing to do, undoing of conditioning undoing of who I was told I had to be. I could be the limitations that had been placed upon me, the small boxes that I had [00:09:00] really just. a lot of time and effort contorting myself to fit into. And, and so I got to just begin to undo those things. And I’ll also say I’m not trying to belittle the school that I attended, but a lot of that did not happen inside the walls of the institutional school. A lot of

Megan: I was wondering

Michelle Shackelford: yeah. It, it was

Megan: after.

Michelle Shackelford: yeah, it was outside of the walls. It was the people that I. Met, and that’s actually the time in my life when I encountered yoga really for the first time. Like I had heard of it, and, and my first experience with yoga more in depth I guess is was actually in a mental health hospital setting. I had, as I was undoing all of these, experiences in my life awakening to, the trauma of my life. I definitely found myself needing some [00:10:00] professional help and, and thankfully I was surrounded by the most wonderful people who helped me and continue to help me, grow and learn. And so yeah, so it was actually in that setting when I first encountered yoga, and I was so peace filled for the first time in my entire life. And all we did was just some yoga poses and Shavasana and that really hooked me. Then I also was reading, a book by Dr. Bessel van der kolk titled The Body Keeps the Score. It’s a pretty common book these days.

Megan: Yes,

Michelle Shackelford: a wonderful, I mean, you probably have read it at least once. It is a wonderful resource and there’s an entire chapter of the book dedicated specifically to yoga. In overcoming trauma in the body. [00:11:00] And that chapter, along with lots of other things in my life, were very instrumental in me becoming a yoga instructor. I wanted to share this magical power, this tool that I had found that really helped me get into my body in ways I had never, I had lived my entire life dissociated from my entire, like, like separated mind, body, spirit, just so. Splintered and segmented off it was that, it was yoga that allowed me to begin to bring the pieces, gather those pieces together and kind of put the puzzle together again, and, and heal in some very powerful ways. And so that, all of that, course, was I wanted to share that. I was like, I want to. Pass this along. So here I get to teach and then of course my meditation practice as well. so [00:12:00] can I still, have to do it daily, like it’s not an option. It is not luxury. It is necessity and it just continues to teach me. How expansive we can be. are so often taught that we have to fit into these small boxes for society to be pleased with us, to accept us, to love us, these conditions, and, and in reality, souls are so vastly expansive, yet it can’t be controlled.

It can’t be contained. So yeah, that’s a long answer to your question. And it’s, always a journey. It’s ongoing.

Megan: Sure. Yes. And I so appreciate that story about the yoga, because I probably discovered it. I would [00:13:00] say beginning of college and really, it’s always kind of been. A part of my life in some way or form, whether I was practicing it intensely or just occasionally returning to it.

It’s always been for me, something that has been very grounding in terms of that integration. And I even had the opportunity to take a college course on yoga when I was working at a Buddhist university. So I’ve had a lot of different aspects and introductions to it, and it’s definitely one of those spiritual practices for sure.

And for me also, there’s been so many different pathways. Everybody has either an event or a transition that they go through that sometimes propels them into that [00:14:00] awakening state. And for me, dreams have always been a huge part of that. I’ve always been fascinated by my dreams and I found that over the years, the more I paid attention to them, the more they were really trying to guide me through those transitions, and I wasn’t giving them enough time and enough credence and enough understanding.

So in your experience, how do dreams play into your awareness and conscious expansion?

Michelle Shackelford: I definitely have a lot more to learn in the realm of dreams and understanding them. I definitely have a lot of vivid dreams and recurring themes and recurring dreams. I have not [00:15:00] gotten to the kind of the root of the message of all of them yet. However one of my favorite ways that dreams impact me is well, it’s kind of twofold in my connection with, ancestors who are in the physical world with us anymore. and then also my grief journey with those answers is who I knew in this life and who have passed. They come and they visit me a lot of times in my dreams.

Of course showing me. What I need to be looking at in my life or, and sometimes they just come to my dreams to say, Hey. I got you. Like we’re, you’re not alone.

Megan: Agreed.

If you are enjoying my podcast and are intrigued by dreams and stories of spiritual awakening, I would like to personally invite you to explore my [00:16:00] international bestselling metaphysical trilogy, Witches of Maple Hollow, like a mystical fairytale. These fall themed mysteries weave cozy supernatural fantasy into enchanting tales of magic and self-discovery.

Start with Book one, The Dream Haunters. The BookLife Prize calls it packed to the brim with surprise portals, ancient traditions, and dream worlds. Then dive into the elusive nature of reality in The Dream Mirrors. And finally unravel ancestral riddles beyond time and space in The Dream Dimensions. Get your exclusive signed copies today at MeganMary.com.

Stop by the store while you’re there and grab your dream journals cozy blankets, pillows, candles, and [00:17:00] more. And don’t forget, they also are available in audiobook. Come visit me in Maple Hollow.

Michelle Shackelford: Yeah, that has really helped guide in in a lot of ways, but also I, I think probably for me thus far, the most distinct way that dreams have helped me in that regard is in my grief journey, is with connecting Those ancestors who, and it’s usually my grandparents at this point in my journey, I was actually the wonderful gift in this life of growing up. With all four of my grandparents my, both of my mom’s parents and both of my dad’s parents, I had all of them until my senior year of high school. And I thought that was normal for everyone. And it’s not sadly.

Megan: Yeah.[00:18:00]

Michelle Shackelford: and I. Yeah, and I actually got to help my grandfather transition from this life. basically, I like to say I helped him die well, and that was a very profound experience for me. And so when he or my other grandparents come and visit me in my dreams or in the presence of birds, , like cardinals or blue Jays or whatever or other methods that they come to me, it, it, it. Most profoundly has helped me in my grief journey to really dive into this concept that the soul doesn’t die when the body dies, I had kind of sort of been taught about with my Christian upbringing. We talk about eternity we would talk about, this place called heaven and this place called hell and. You know, all these concepts. But it wasn’t until [00:19:00] I leaned into my WOOWOO side and my more spiritual side that I really started understanding more the concept of eternity, which is I was often taught of it as a future thing. Like I, I started to exist when I was. conceived or born or whatever, that whole argument on the planet, right?

So there was no teaching in my upbringing of existing before that, which is so sad. But if you think about eternity, limitless infinite in finite, there is no time in the spirit realm. It’s baffling that, I was taught that it’s this future thing, but anyway, so all of that kind of helped me to recognize that death is not necessarily something that we have to really fear. Of course, the way that we transition can be, filled with suffering if [00:20:00] we, allow it and whatnot. And it can also be filled with so much peace and beauty which is actually inspiring me. I have not started a yet with it, but I have been mulling over the idea of being a death doula and helping,

Megan: Yes.

Michelle Shackelford: people transition and, and also helping families with their grief. So, yeah, so

Megan: Yeah.

Michelle Shackelford: to answer the question, I guess more, more directly is that, is grief and then the connection with like this whole realm, multiple realms possibly beyond what we know in this physical 3D reality.

Megan: Yeah, I’m on the road to the pH. D, but I’m in the process of the Master’s in metaphysical sciences and it really is part of the role of [00:21:00] metaphysical practitioners. Whether you wanna call us ministers, or pastors or guides or coaches or whatever you wanna call us, we are those people that are put here to help others understand the transitions in and out of this existence, and to understand the magnitude and the universality of what our true essences. And I think it’s a beautiful role to. Play the Death doula to support death with dignity, to support families that are transitioning and people that are transitioning in that because we are conditioned as a society to be afraid and to be sad, and to be, you know, obviously grief is real and and all those things happen, but there’s such an opportunity there that we’re missing in helping people and [00:22:00] ourselves to see the bigger picture and it’s very much one of the roles as much as it is marrying people or bringing life into the world.

You’re also helping lives transition out and helping other people understand that it’s not what they thought and that’s really a very, very important role for anyone who feels called to do it, and I feel that myself also, my experience with dreams has very much been passed over loved ones.

My father died when I was. Just becoming an adult. And so his visitation dreams that I experienced were profound for, for me because they really proved to me that there was more, and it wasn’t a one and done, it [00:23:00] was a continual process where. I would actually see him getting younger. At one point he was younger than me and it was like, okay, this is really interesting.

So it helps me understand that we are not linear beings and that the day of the birth and the day of death are not the bookends. There’s so much more before and after that.

Michelle Shackelford: Maybe less bookend and more gate like, just

Megan: I like that.

Michelle Shackelford: A path, like part of the path, you know.

Megan: Yes.

Michelle Shackelford: talking about the role of of helping souls, guiding souls, it reminds me of this ancient concept of shepherding. Which

Megan: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Shackelford: that a lot of us in the, at least in the US and you know, certain societies really have a lot of a concept of [00:24:00] shepherding. I got really curious about it when I was at one, at one point when I was in seminary my master’s degree. And it, so we have this concept growing up in the church of, my shepherd and dah, dah, dah, and. and the word pastor, you know, that we call our, the leader of a congregation, a local church. The word pastor is just shepherd. It’s another word. Pastoral society is a shepherding

Megan: Right. Hence the past pastoral paintings, you know, they, they do kind of mean the same thing.

Michelle Shackelford: yes. And, and we

Megan: Yeah.

Michelle Shackelford: The shepherd. And, part of what I learned when I did some specific research into ancient shepherding. Was that it’s not just this real cute standing there with the staff just,

Megan: With the sheep.

Michelle Shackelford: yeah, just hanging out, like, just watching, like nothing ever

Megan: Yeah.

Michelle Shackelford: You, you’re a

Megan: Yeah.

Michelle Shackelford: wolves and you guide them and

guide them to greener pastures when they’ve finished eating all of this [00:25:00] one. And sometimes it’s rocky and it’s dangerous. And, it’s just this beautiful metaphor of the life. And I think that’s too, is what ancestors can help us with in this life through dreams and other modalities.

Is that shepherding like, Hey, I’m with you. I’m with you.

Megan: Yeah. Right, the companionship and that you’re not alone. And I think that’s part of the fear of death is either that the person passing thinks they’re gonna be alone or that the person losing thinks they’re gonna be alone, and neither are true. In my opinion, but of course there’s no proof of that. But this is where belief and knowing comes in and intuition and all of that.

And the, what we talk about a lot on this show is remembrance and remembering your universal self, your [00:26:00] higher self. The one that’s you before you were you,

Michelle Shackelford: Mm-hmm.

Megan: in this incarnation and understanding that all of those do come from the same place. And that, in all of the practices around the world, there’s a lot of overlap, there’s a lot of similarities, there’s a lot of truth.

But at the end of the day, I think there’s also a lot of dogma, as you probably agree in any of those organized sects where they’re saying, you know, if you, if you don’t believe this, then you’re going to be condemned. And I think that’s where we lose the freedom to access it ourselves. And that was part of the struggle that I had.

Younger, when I was being taught religious practices, I was thinking, I don’t understand why I have to go see this person to get to [00:27:00] the higher spirit because I feel that I’m already communing with spirits and that doesn’t make sense to me. And it never did. And the more I researched the practices and beliefs that came before what I was being taught, the more I thought, Hmm, I’m not getting the whole picture here.

There’s a lot that was migrated and borrowed and incorporated from those practices that holds even more truth in my opinion. And so it became a quest for me as a younger person to fetter out what didn’t seem to give me the freedom that I felt I already came in with. And that was for me, what led me to discover so many other things about myself and about the universe, or whatever you will call it that I don’t think a lot of people [00:28:00] take the time to discover because they’re too busy following the rules that are laid forth by these historical paths.

Michelle Shackelford: Mm-hmm. Someone else’s path. Rather than I am on my journey, my soul’s journey, it’s this precut I have to follow somebody else’s path. And, and I remember even talking in my senior seminar class, at my undergrad, degree, we talked about how we had grown up with this, even if it wasn’t ever spoken clearly, this concept was drilled into our heads, this idea of divine plan, God’s plan for your life, or God’s blueprint for your life. we talked about how that made us feel as though if we took one wrong step the journey [00:29:00] made one wrong decision or this, or that, that, we would just completely ruin God’s plan for our life.

And. We just fell off the whole bandwagon. Right. And and of course our professor was like, no, like there’s a massive safety net, you know, it’s not like that. And, and was very kind and generous and really set us free from that thinking. But yeah, we’re taught that we have to follow someone else’s path and it’s, it’s given to us in the form of patriarchy and colonialism and commercialism and all these kinds of isms and things that we’re told we have to be, the boxes we’re told we have to fit in to fit in, even just to fit into society, much less to fit into the divine plan, so to speak.

And, and it’s like, wait a minute, you’re, you’re missing the point. I think, and I was, I

Megan: Yeah.

Michelle Shackelford: I was always you know, just [00:30:00] me, let me talk to God. You know, let me commun in my soul, let me listen to my intuition. And that has definitely served me a lot more than trying to fit in anybody else’s boxes because I’m not made for their boxes.

Megan: Right. Yeah. Let me figure it out and decide if that’s even what I’m going to call it and what I’m going to say about it. Because I don’t even like to fit into the boxes of the words. I don’t even like to use the words,

Michelle Shackelford: Yeah.

Megan: Because I have way too much baggage attached to them. So I prefer to just speak about it with a completely different nomenclature that is not attached to any previous feeling about it because it’s very disempowering.

Michelle Shackelford: Mm-hmm.

Megan: The dogmas that are put forth doesn’t allow us to recognize the fact that we’re living in a quantum field and that our thoughts [00:31:00] create reality. If you are gonna say that there is a prescribed plan, then there is nothing that you can manifest

Michelle Shackelford: Right.

Megan: As opposed to that, you have multiple simultaneous parallel realities, which you can time jump between. And that at any time, by affecting your thoughts and understanding where you’re sitting spiritually, you can affect what is your reality. And the whole quantum concept of reality doesn’t have a place.

In some of those philosophies at all,

Michelle Shackelford: Yeah,

Megan: so

Michelle Shackelford: percent. Absolutely. It’s mind blowing.

Megan: Yeah, and I’m glad to be able to have this platform to bring on other people and talk about where they started out, what they discovered, how they then lived their life with [00:32:00] that newly gained knowledge because it helps everybody else that’s struggling to break free of those. Different constructs because many times you might be the only person in your small circle who’s thinking that or feeling that, and

it helps a lot when you have someone reflect it back to you or to validate you or to say, yes, you’re right, or I feel the same way, or I see where you’re coming from, but many times you don’t have that. And so that’s why these communities are so important and these channels of communication where we can broadcast that experience for those that are going through it in whatever shape that looks like for them.

Michelle Shackelford: I agree. Yeah, it’s like if they’re going down a stream. Like they’re lost and historically speaking, chaos or water [00:33:00] was associated with chaos. Right? Or lack of control. Mystery. So if they’re floating in this sea of mystery, chaos, whatever, what you’re saying, these communities, these concepts, people saying, Hey, this, I’ve been here on the journey, for example.

It’s like it offers them a little hand to grab onto, even if, just for a moment. You know, I’ve

Megan: Yes.

Michelle Shackelford: viewed myself as a lighthouse of the boats, so to speak. The souls going by may not even need to stop, but they the very least have a light shining somewhere that, that reminds them. It’s not all dark and you’re not alone.

Megan: Yes, absolutely. I love the, I love the lighthouse metaphor and just two days ago, I think it was National Lighthouse Day, and I actually have, yeah, I have a. A dream sequence in my, [00:34:00] one of my books that’s about the lighthouse because I really, I love that metaphor, and I do think part of the metaphysical calling is to be the light.

And it doesn’t necessarily mean, like you said, that. I’m never gonna talk to anybody that listens to this episode, but they’re gonna receive the light in it and it’s going to help them on their path. And that’s what I was called to do when I created this. And that’s really the purpose of it in a nutshell.

So thank you for that.

Michelle Shackelford: Thank you. Yeah.

Megan: Well, I want to mention that you are on Insight Timer as I am as a meditation teacher, and so people can find you on there. And I do put the podcast episodes on there as well. So it’s a great place to connect and listen to meditations daily, and I love that so. I will definitely put your [00:35:00] link to that in the show notes.

Michelle Shackelford: Okay.

Megan: are there any closing thoughts for our audience?

Michelle Shackelford: There is a lot on in the world right now. Do I need to even say that to already know it? so. I wanna pass along a word that a friend of mine has been sharing in various capacities, and, I’ve received it now at least twice from her. and it is you should be proud of how well you’re doing and how far you’ve come. Even if you feel like you’re drowning in the sea of chaos, in the sea of life please know you are doing a lot better than you think and feel you are. And you are never, ever, ever, ever, ever alone, ever. There is [00:36:00] always light. There’s always love. And, and if you can’t find it outside of you, just go within. It’s there. I promise.

Megan: Thank you. Thank you for those closing words and thank you for being here today, Michelle. I really appreciate it.

Michelle Shackelford: me. Absolutely.

Thank you for listening. Did you enjoy this episode? Be sure to subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. Head over to my YouTube channel. and hit that subscribe button as well to be part of my growing community. Are you ready to take the next step in your spiritual journey?

Don’t miss out on the new Dream Empowerment Programs, unique opportunities for you to unlock your inner wisdom, discover your authenticity, align with your higher self, and bring abundance into your life. If [00:37:00] you’d like your dream or awakening story. Featured on my show. Submit it today. Your dreams have the power to inspire and enlighten other women on their journey.

Visit megan mary.com to find out more.